russell higgs

30 Sep 2007 1,216 views
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sunday 30092007

Klaus Kinski said...

"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real."

sunday 30092007

Klaus Kinski said...

"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real."

comments (8)

They.....don't want to see that !
I like very much your work, each one is not so different but never the same smile
russell higgs: just like daily reality, not so different but never the same.
  • ray
  • Thailand
  • 1 Oct 2007, 01:24
Klaus was presumably not familiar with Groupthink [or, perhaps it is desire to belong], and what it can do to weak individuals in larger gatherings.
russell higgs: I assume you mean that some people will act in a depraved manner only because they are going along with the group. But Klaus' point would still stand. An individual who gets sucked into a depraved group action is showing us something very real and honest about themselves. Otherwise they wouldn't do it, group or no group.
  • ray
  • Thailand
  • 1 Oct 2007, 13:35
Hi Russell.
I think I understand your point. I feel you are being a bit too lenient with Klaus...your perogative of course, but doing so dilutes the power of his statement.

The weak individuals, I am speaking of, are not so much morally corrupt as chronically morally confused...sadly, I feel there are quite a lot of folks like that.

Many years ago, when I was quite young, I had this quaint idea that folks are basically inherently good [in their genes or something like that] and will treat others with kindness and respect unless something happens to "corrupt" that goodness. I have gotten over that, and now feel this moral compass bearing is manufactured as a strong social engineering tool and is often manipulated by those who would be the grand puppeteer. My feeling is that we are genetically imprinted to compete, and there are only 2 rules for this game:

Rule#1...The winner gets the prize [biggest share of meat, most fertile mate, the warm bed close to the fire, etc]

Rule #2...There are no other rules!

I don't see this as a cynical thought, but more of a pragmatic one. Actually, I try to be kind and respectful, and I like to be with others who are similarly oriented; this requires me to sometimes "give the finger" to the genetic clamour!
russell higgs: i believe that some people are competetive, while others are naturally co-operative, and some others are into solitude, and some are etc etc etc.

I don't believe there is just one type of basic human in this world.

plus I believe that all people are capable of Learning and Changing and Becoming etc.

when you say that you feel I am "being a bit too lenient with Klaus" and that "dilutes the power of his statement" what do you mean? what do you read when you read that kinski quote?

A homeless construction worker discovers a pair of special sunglasses.

Wearing them, he is able to see the world as it really is: people being bombarded with subliminal messages like "OBEY", "CONFORM", "MARRY AND REPRODUCE", "CONSUME", "WATCH TELEVISION", "SLEEP" and "SUBMIT TO AUTHORITY".

.....and the Street Preacher says: "Outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us, from birth to death, are our owners! Our owners! They have us. They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They're all about you! All around you!"
  • ray
  • Thailand
  • 2 Oct 2007, 15:02
Hi Russell.
I don't know the context in which Klaus is said to have uttered this nonsense...

However, Klaus was one of the great self-publicists, and he was keen for other folks to see him as "bad to the bone"; he went about the place doing his "...aren't I just the most depraved human-like animal you have ever seen...loath me, go on...loath me..." act, using his considerable professional acting skills and experience.

Actually, I think the main words in his quote are "One should judge a man"...why the heck does he feel the need to judge folks! And...why is he keen for folks to judge him!

As to the remainder of the quote, Klaus has just manufacture a bit of crap to support his insistence that he is really a bad bit of work. There is no reason why depraved behaviour is inherently more honest than virtuous behaviour.
  • King Mob
  • beneath you
  • 2 Oct 2007, 18:25

a 1999 documentary film about Klaus Kinski made by Werner Herzog

the German title is "Mein liebster Feind - Klaus Kinski"
literally "My Dearest Enemy - Klaus Kinski"

plus... six-film Herzog/Kinski boxed set
Hmmmm. What is depraved or what is virtuous according to whose moral code? Who decides what is morally corrupt?

I’m not familiar with Kinski’s work, but the quote can stand on its own. Ray’s second post appears to be seething with judgments, which is pretty funny since it’s pointing to someone else’s presumed judgment. As Kinski’s mother tongue was probably German, perhaps we can make allowances for his use of the word judgment, and take it to mean simply “to form an opinion or evaluation” (which we as humans do best, and often). I don’t think anyone said depraved behavior is inherently more honest than virtuous behavior. But why argue about that, when we could just find the truth in it?

Anyway, to me this Kinski quote says something that I know to be true about myself and what I have often observed in others... I have learned to be "good" (according to whatever standard), and I can act that part very well, expertly in fact. So it can sometimes be an act, as in fake. It's also sometimes real, as in authentic. But my acts of "depravity" feel not acted or fake, in that they come from a place I feel I have less control over than my choice to act good, or maybe it’s just a place I am not as familiar with. In that sense, I think Kinski is right, one can observe something more real about a person in his/her depravities. I wonder if those even can be faked, and if so, why would one want to, except for the experience. Which can also be a good thing for Learning and Changing and Becoming.

Acknowledging this dark aspect, allowing it some breathing space and perhaps a bit of life, contributes to psychological and spiritual growth/transformation. Judging it, denying its existence, keeping it in the shadows etc. creates sickness and unhealth in the individual as well as the group.

I too believe that all people are capable of Learning and Changing and Becoming, as well as being capable of all virtues and all depravities.

As to the image, Russell... what beady eyes THEY have, and so mealy-mouthed, too, like some kind of insect. The bestial shadow lurking so close, almost seems to turn its head toward ME and ask
russell higgs: the insectoid mouth brings "THEM" to mind.

..... humanity's battle with a nest of giant mutant ants back in 1954.
I do not disagree with this writing!!

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